Transcript 0:00 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Melanin MVP. Today I am joined by Mary Michelle Fleming, who is running an incredible race in about a month from now. Mary, thank you so much for joining me today. 0:13 Hey, I'm glad to be here. Yes, I'm not gonna say where she's from. She's from the great state of Arkansas. [laughs] And I'll let you decide where geographically- [laughs]... she is calling in from today. 0:23 But we're not gonna talk about that, because the race we're talking about is actually taking place in London. Yes. It is a huge, huge race for her. It is. 0:33 Um, as a runner it'll be the last of her world majors, so that is a huge accomplishment, and I just wanna know, like, you're a month out, how are you feeling? Like, what are you excited about right now? I'm feeling good. 0:44 Listen, I just ran Tokyo, and it was interesting to say the least. Going, going international and trying to run these races around the globe has been very, very interesting I should say, but it's been fulfilling as well. 0:58 You know, I feel like you're starting to reach the pinnacle when you are getting ready to finish out the world majors. 1:04 And to have the ability to be able to travel and be able to run and love what you do and do it in other countries is amazing. So as I am approaching London, I'm excited. 1:15 I'm excited to be running in London, but I'm excited to be completing, um, the first six majors, and I'm a bit overwhelmed to be honest with you. So when you said that Tokyo was interesting, why was Tokyo interesting? 1:31 Tokyo was interesting because it, it's not a secret, Tokyo had some issues with hydration, and there were some aid stations that either didn't have cups or they didn't have water. 1:44 And that proved difficult, because Tokyo also was a bit warmer than it normally is. It was in the 60s, which is, is pretty warm for a marathon. So that proved to be somewhat challenging. 1:55 And then I had some issues with my stomach going on, so I was trying to persevere, and my biggest goal initially was going into Tokyo hoping that I would PR or get my personal best. But that did not happen. 2:08 We went with the second goal, which was to just finish, and so that's what I did. 2:13 It was an incredible visit to Japan, but the Tokyo Marathon was just a little different this year, but I still appreciated being a part and had a good time overall. 2:23 When it comes to nutrition for running longer races, how do you approach that? Yeah, so nutrition is important, and I've made some changes to my nutrition here lately. It used to be pizza. 2:35 [laughs] So we do something called carb loading, and that's basically you're trying to get your body ready, and generally I'll start that about two days before my races. 2:44 In the past it's been pizza, lasagna, pastas, and all the things, and that's what I would do to carb load two days before. 2:52 And then the night before the actual race I might do another slice of pizza, and then in the morning I'd wake up and then I'd have either a bagel or a bagel and some peanut butter. 3:02 Here lately I've been on a nutrition kick and I've been doing a little bit better, and I still will do the pasta, but I'm using healthier ingredients. I'm using the wheat pasta. I'm using the ground turkey. 3:16 I'm cooking it differently. And so now I'm a little bit more conscious in how I- I'm eating before a race. 3:23 So generally, like I said, it's the more healthier form of the pasta, and then, um, the night before I'll find something else. It may be noodles. 3:32 And then that morning I still do my bagel and I still will do my peanut butter. And then even throughout the race I'll use my Goos. Goos are like the little gel or whatever that you'll eat- Mm-hmm... you'll take. 3:43 I'll use my Martins, and then sometimes I'll have some peanut butter cups that I'll eat along the way or some peanut M&Ms, and that's what I use to, to really get ready for my races. 3:55 So London will be the last of six that you are run- well, not the last you'll ever run obviously, but it'll be the sixth world marathon that you're doing. 4:05 How has your preparation from the first world marathon or, like, world majors to now changed over time? So one of the things that I... 4:14 When I first started this journey and I got my training plan, I felt like I had to do every run. I had to stick to the training program from A to Z. There couldn't be any variation. I had to do all of the things. 4:29 The more you run, the more you learn that sometimes if, you know, your body just is not in the condition to run, you just don't do it. You listen to your body more. 4:40 Just because the training plan calls for 18 doesn't mean that if something doesn't occur you can't adjust it. So I allow for more adjustments as necessary. 4:50 For instance, one of my biggest changes is I used to go by a program that was online, like a Hal Higdon program. Since that time I've now worked with a running coach. 5:01 The running coach was great for me, because the running coach tailored a program for me that focused on what I could do, what was realistic for me in the time, and it has been successful. 5:12 What's interesting about that is what he prescribed for me for Chicago in 2021 was totally different from what he prescribed for Boston in '22, and it was totally different for New York in '23. 5:26 And it was different because I had to run three marathons in six weeks. It looked different going through those, because I was trying to persevere between three marathons. 5:35 Having that coach was different for me as I have approached more of these world majors versus having just a cookie cutter plan that I got offline in my first marathon. 5:46 So those are some of the differences is having a coach and then being able to be flexible with my training, um, and realizing that if my body is saying no, I need to listen to my body. 5:57 I am not a runner, but when I talk to a lot of people who do run regularly in races, a lot of them don't do anywhere near as many marathons as you do. They do one marathon maybe every five years or something. Yeah. 6:11 A lot of people, they do a marathon, they're like, "Cool, I checked the box. Let me go back to a half." Or a 10K or a 5K in terms of my regular running rotation. What is your motivation for doing so many marathons? 6:25 So my motivation has changed actually. When I first started the marathons, I originally started with just wanting to do one. 6:33 And [laughs] I was gonna go to Disney World, it was gonna be incredible, and then I was gonna go back to the half marathon world. 6:40 Well, I did my first marathon in 2020 right before the pandemic hit, and it was, it was tough as well because it was 85 degrees in Florida. 6:50 And the first thing that they said is, "You know, you might wanna reconsider any personal best attempts because it may be difficult." And I did the first one. I enjoyed it. 7:00 It was tough, but I enjoyed it, and I got the rush when I got done because I was, you know, I was excited about being a part of the less than 1%. 7:09 When I saw some of my run friends had done Chicago, I became intrigued and I was like, "Well, what is Chicago about?" And that's when I learned about the World Major Series. 7:20 So I threw my name in the hat, and I actually got into Chicago. And when I got into Chicago, I did a pretty good job with it, and I just continued going. 7:30 At that time, just wanting to see how much better I could be was the reason why I kept going. 7:37 A- additionally, like, when you start this marathon training process, when you get done with your race, it's almost like, well, what am I supposed to do now? 7:46 So once I got done with that Chicago one, it was like, well, I know I said I wasn't gonna do any more fulls, but I think I do wanna try it, and now I wanna beat my time in Chicago. 7:56 So I wanted to be better than the version of me that showed up for that first marathon, and then I wanted to be better than the second version of me, so trying to become better was the driving factor. 8:07 Then you get to 2024, where I don't do any of my marathons and race them to get better. I switch my reason to being service, community service, and started pacing marathons. 8:22 So when we're pacing marathons, we are helping others to achieve the goal of completing a marathon, and I always sign up for the back of the pack. 8:30 So I'm always gonna pace your 545s and your six hours, and potentially may even do a six hour and 30 minute one. 8:38 But by pacing the back of the pack, I almost always get first time marathoners, and so I enjoy being able to work with those ladies or even gentlemen sometimes. 8:49 I enjoy working with those individuals to help them through the 26.2 miles and get to their first finish because that is a really hard race for a lot of people. 8:59 So I switched from trying to be better than myself to actually trying to assist those who are jumping into this whole arena of running their first marathon, and then trying to help them achieve their goals. 9:11 And now I'm switching back to finishing off my six World Majors. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I want to get into pacing for a minute. Okay. 9:21 Um, when it comes to pacing someone else, I've seen videos of, like, Casey Nystedt for example, he had a pacer for his New York Marathon because he was trying to do a sub three-hour marathon. Yes, yes. 9:34 And so a lot of times when people have pacers, or not a lot of times, but sometimes when people have pacers, it is for the goal of I need you to help me complete this marathon in a certain amount of time. 9:43 From what it sounds like, you are not necessarily working with people who care about the time, they care about finishing. Yes. How do you work with people ahead of the marathon to help them mentally prepare for it? 9:56 And then what does pacing look like on the day of? What does communication look like when you're pacing someone? Okay. 10:02 So a lot of times when I'm working with people before the marathon, it's gonna be in a coaching, coaching way. When I get to the marathon, most times it's the first time I've met the people who are running with me. 10:14 From a coaching standpoint, it's building the confidence up. It's slowly taking the progression up to where they get to the point where they can confidently or as confidently as possible run a marathon. 10:26 Because there is so much that goes through a person's mind when they're running a marathon. We go through almost every emotion. When you begin, you're excited, you can't believe you're there. You have a few nerves. 10:37 And then you settle into about mile 10, and you're looking at your watch and you're f- following your time and you're like, "Okay, I'm doing this. I can't believe it." 10:45 And then you get to mile 13 and you're like, "I'm halfway there." Either you're excited about it or you're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't know if I can do another 13 miles." But then you get to something called a wall. 10:56 Generally around mile 19 or 20, people begin to become emotional and they start to question whether or not they can keep going. 11:06 That's why it's so important in training to take a parti- participant all the way up to running 20 miles before they get there on race day. 11:14 In the training program, I make sure that everyone goes to 20, if not 21, because I need you to know you can get past that wall. I need you to know that you can finish. 11:25 On race day, when we hit that wall at 20 and the tears start to flow, I switch us over from saying we've hit 20 to we only have six miles to go. And you do six miles very easily. 11:37 You've done six miles probably for 75% of your training program. You know what six miles looks like. All we have to do is knock out 6.2 and you are done. 11:46 And so it's working on the mentality while they're out there, but prior to showing up on r- race day, it's helping them by building their confidence and making sure that, you know what, if you show up on race day and you don't have a pacer, and you have to do this on your own on race day, you know what? 12:02 You're confident because we've done this enough that you are... You should be familiar with everything all the way up to mile 20, and then your heart will carry you in from mile 20 to 26.2. So... 12:14 Have you had a pacer for any of your marathons? Oh, I have. I've had them for my half-marathons. Yes, yes, I have. My personal best was with a pacer. 12:24 It was here in Little Rock, and I, I reached out to him and I said, "Hey, I think I'm gonna try to hang with you guys for this race." 12:33 I said, "I don't know because Little Rock is hilly, but I'm gonna get out here and I'm gonna give it my all. Like, I'm gonna do everything I can." And I remember falling slightly behind the pace group. 12:44 And we got to mile probably 25, and my run crew shows up on the course, 'cause none of them ran the full. They all did the half-marathon. And we talk about that to this day, like, "Y'all left me out there by myself." 12:57 And so they show up, my run crew, Coach Serv and, and friends, they showed up with a massage gun, and they had my candy waiting. And they met me at mile 25, and they quickly worked with my legs, and they sent me on. 13:10 And they said, "Dwayne, who's with the pace group, is gonna meet you at mile 25.5." And I said, "Well, no, I can't keep up with them. Like, I'm, I'm behind the pace group." They said, "He stopped. He's waiting on you." 13:22 So I had hung in with him for probably 85% of the race, and at the end I just kinda got back a little bit. But what ended up happening was I went up the hill and there Dwayne was, the pacer, and he had waited on me. 13:36 And he took me in, and it to this day is a 12-minute PR. I finished it in, like, 4:40-something, and it's been my best one thus far. And so that was the effect of working with a pacer. 13:52 I love that it happened in your hometown. Like, I love that it happened in Arkansas. Yes. Because I wanna hear more about what running locally looks like for you. Like, how often are you running by yourself? 14:04 How often are you running with a local group? What does that running community look like? Okay. So in Arkansas we have the 501 Soul Runners, and it was established maybe six years ago. 14:16 And when I say a close-knit family, we are extremely close. Like, everything that happens run-wise in our city, generally somebody with 501 is gonna going to be a part. 14:29 We have this rule: nobody does their first race alone. No one. It doesn't matter if you are running a 5K or you are running a full. If you're running a full, somebody is gonna have to train to get out there with you. 14:41 We meet twice a week at least. We travel together. We go to different races around the nation. We work out together. We do strength training together. It's a group of us that are... We're various ages. 14:54 We're various skill levels, too. I mean, we have people out there who come out for the first time to walk. They're not even trying to do Couch to 5K run. They're trying to do Couch to Making It to the Pavement. 15:05 And when they come, we embrace them. Somebody stays back and will walk with them, even if we're in the middle of training. 15:11 Somebody's gonna stay back and walk with them to make sure everybody's comfortable and everybody realizes that they have a space on the pavement. It's a highly encouraging group. 15:21 I tend to have to do a lot of my long runs by myself because the full distance is not something that most people do. 15:30 But even when I'm running by myself, if it's a training run for 20 miles, I might have a person who's on mile t- 10, and they're gonna have some Gatorade and water waiting for me. 15:41 I'm gonna have somebody who might say, "I'm not running the 20 with you, Mary, but you know what? I got you for the last five." Or I might have somebody that says, "Hey, I got you for the first 10." 15:49 I can remember Chicago. I was getting ready to run Chicago, I think in '23. No, it was '22. And when I say nobody [laughs] was running Chicago, no one, so that meant that I was pretty much training by myself. 16:03 But I can remember that summer in the training runs that I had, I would say half of them, people got up at 5:00 and ran with me. 16:11 And these people didn't have a full on their list, but they got up and they ran with me because they knew 5:00 was the crack of dawn, and they wanted to make sure I was safe, so they got out there with me and they did the training even though there was no race on the back end for them. 16:23 So that's kinda what 501 does. 501 supports. There have been times I've been gone to some of my bigger races, and they'll send me with a goodie bag or they may put me a little change in my hand. 16:34 Or they come together and they support me through my charities that I'm doing in order to run, and they make sure that I have what I need, and I love them for it. That's amazing. And I love that. 16:45 I love that they come together for everyone and for the benefit of everyone wherever they are- Yep... in their running journey. Yes. 16:52 Um, for people who can't see you right now, you're rocking your Black Girls Run tee right now. [laughs] Yes. Tell me what your experience was, was like running with them and training with them. 17:04 So Black Girls Run, I generally will rep, either I'm repping 501 or Black Girls Run. A lot of times when I rep BGR, it's because BGR kicked it off for me. When I first started this journey, I started with BGR. 17:15 We had a local chapter here. Shouts out to Nicole Carr, who had a Couch to 5K program. I used to have anxiety pretty bad, and I went to see my doctor, and my doctor actually made a suggestion that I consider walking. 17:28 And so around that same time, my best friend learned of the Black Girls Run organization, and she was like, "Yeah, I heard that they're practicing to run a 5K. How do you feel about going with me?" 17:38 And I was like, "Girl, I don't run. Like, why would I want [laughs] to go run?" And she was like, "Well, your doctor told you you need to walk, so at least we can go out there and work out." 17:46 So me and Daphne, we went to this Couch to 5K program. They were, I think they were in week three already. But Nicole was extremely supportive, and she said, "No, Mary, stay. 17:56 Keep coming back and stay, and I can still get you to where you need to be to be able to run. And plus it'll help you with what you have going on." So I was like, "Okay." And I stuck to that program. 18:06 [laughs] I stuck to it. I tell the story about going, one of my first times going to BGR's Couch to 5K program, and I saw a lady by the name of LaFaye who was just running and running, and she didn't stop. 18:19 And I just remember looking, and I was like, "Oh, my goodness. One day I would love to do that. I'd love to run." And not stop. 18:27 And so I asked her, I pulled her to the side, I said, "Hey, how did you get to a point where you could just run and just keep running and keep running and keep running?" 18:34 And she was just like, "I, I did a training program like what you're doing right now with BGR." And she was like, "And if you stick to your training program, you're gonna get here." And so I kept showing up. 18:44 I kept showing up every week. Kept showing up, and at the end of the BGR program, we did a 5K. I ran the entire 5K without stopping and got my first medal, and I was hooked from then on. [laughs] I was hooked. 18:57 [laughs] And so that is how I started. BGR's Couch to 5K program is what got me running. 19:04 How often do you see Black Girls Run groups who are, like, at hydration stations or just in the crowds at any of the races that you do now, especially the full marathons? 19:13 If BGR is a partner in a race, we're gonna see a sea, like a, a crowd of BGR members. 19:20 If they're not, you may see a few, but what I have found is Black Girls Run tends to be the common thread for Black women runners around the nation. 19:30 And we generally will wear our BGR shirts whenever we're running in a different state, and so it instantly connects you when you see that BGR on somebody's shirt. We wear our paraphernalia. 19:40 I, I don't see it all the time, but when I am racing and there are BGR members there, I'll be able to immediately identify them. 19:51 I think there's a large percentage of women who are running around the nation that are probably connected to BGR in some kind of way. Yeah, I would think so. 20:00 I just did a short documentary film on a Black woman runner, and she was repping, like, Black Girls Run every other run [laughs] she did. Yeah, yeah. 20:08 And on the day she had on, like, her running hat that said Black Girls Run, so I was like, "Okay, cool." And see, that's kinda me. Like, either I'm repping BGR or I'm repping 501. Yeah. 20:17 So I go back and forth because there's a lot of love for both orgs. When you travel for races, do you ever do any of the shakeout runs, and how do you find out about some of those? 20:28 When we went to Tokyo, they had a shakeout run, and there was probably 100 of us. And when I say us, I mean African Americans. 20:36 And so we g- typically, before we go to big run races, there's some type of Facebook group that connects all of the people who are going to that race. So we have what's called a Black Runners Connection. 20:48 Black Runners Connection is comprised of runners from around the United States, and within Black Runners Connections, oftentimes, especially for the world majors, they will craft smaller groups that focus on specific races. 21:01 So for Tokyo, there was a Tokyo Drift group and a couple of other groups. So we knew prior to going to Tokyo that there was a good number of us that were there. 21:09 So by the time we got there, we were able to do a meet and greet, we were able to do the shakeout run, we did the race, and then we did pictures afterwards. 21:17 That's kind of what happens when we get to these big races so that we can connect in a space where we're all there. So yeah, we do, I do the shakeout runs as, as much as they're available. 21:28 If they have a shakeout run before we, I mean, when we get there, I'm gonna do it. But a lot of times they don't have 'em. Well, that's good to know. 21:35 And it's good for people who are looking for them if they wanna find them, they know where they can look. Yeah. 21:39 One thing that I think is interesting that you haven't mentioned that I think a lot of people associate with running is weight loss. Yes. And the way I like to think about 21:50 being outdoors is for me it is less about weight loss and more about joy gain, right? Yes. When I'm outside in nature, it's not just about, yes, moving my body for sure, but it's also about being away from a screen. 22:04 It's about getting out of my head sometimes as well. It's about enjoying the world around me and not being confined to a room, sitting down all day. 22:14 And I would love to hear your kind of take on how running has really positively impacted your mental health throughout this process. Yeah, yeah. I started this process because I had anxiety pretty, pretty, pretty tough. 22:27 Running calms me down. It really does. It provides a space for me to just kinda just get out there and get lost. I have my earbuds in, I'm one with nature, and sometimes I have my music on and I'm going. 22:39 Sometimes I don't, I'm just listening to, to the birds chirping or whatever else might be going around. Could be the kids playing outside or something. But running for me has been therapeutic. It really has. 22:51 When people say that exercising and running and walking, you know, does something to the body, the whole serotonin and all of these things that they talk about, there is some truth to that. I have experienced that. 23:04 For me, running is my medication. When I have those moments where you can feel the anxiety creeping in, if I can get out and I can hit that pavement, a lot of times it'll bring me down. 23:14 I wanna make sure that people understand if medication is your thing, do what you need to do to get what you need to get and, and be what you need to be. 23:20 But for me, I tried to do what I could to not have to take medication, and running for me has become that. 23:26 It has really been a space for me to just exist and be, and all of the health benefits that I get aside from that are just added benefits. 23:38 So it's been really good to combat the whole anxiety thing, and it's, um, I've seen some benefits all kinds of ways. But it has, it's helped me lose weight though. I will say that. 23:48 I started off at 250 when I started this journey, and I am down quite a bit. I'm down almost 50. 23:54 But you know, I tell people who use the running and walking as a method for, like, losing weight that nutrition is way greater than just the whole running thing. 24:04 So you gotta make sure your nutrition is on point if running is why you do that. I wanna be an encouragement to somebody out there. There aren't a lot of us who are on the pavement. 24:14 There's less than 1% of the population who runs marathons. There's a even smaller percentage of that that's African American, and then when you get to Black women, it's even smaller, you know? 24:25 If I could say anything, I would say to my melanated sisters, "There's a space for you out here as well." At 45 years old, the ability to run 26.2 miles comes strictly from training. It's training, it's drive. 24:38 I hear people say a lot of times, "I could never do that." Oh, but you can if you choose to train. 24:44 And so I wanna be an encouragement to somebody who might be sitting back and looking at this and they're just like, "You know what? I d- that's not my thing." 24:52 Maybe it's not your thing, but maybe it's not your thing because you never tried it as a thing. If running does not appease you or appeal to you, then consider maybe walking. 25:03 We know what the numbers look like in terms of cardiovascular health, especially with us as we get older, Black men and Black women. We gotta do something about it. 25:14 And so if you can get out and you can walk for 30 minutes a day just to improve your health, to get your heart in the right space, then do that. 25:22 I just wanna encourage people to get to moving and making sure we're taking care of our bodies. And whether or not you choose to run or not, just make sure you're taking care of you, 'cause we need you here. Yeah. 25:32 [laughs] I love it. Thank you so much.
